Marriage and Intimacy Tips for Christian Couples: Secrets of Happily Ever After
Have you ever wondered what makes the difference between those couples who absolutely LOVE to be together and the ones who merely tolorate each other in their old age? I always want to run up to the cute old couples who still hold hands while walking down the street and ask them all their secrets to relationship success. This podcast gives me the opportunity to do just that!
I'm Monica Tanner, wife to a super hunky man, mom to 4 kids, weekly podcaster and relationship and intimacy expert/enthusiast. I help couples ditch the resentment and roommate syndrome and increase communication, connection and commitment, so they can write and live out their happily ever after love story. If that sounds like something you want, this podcast is absolutely for YOU!
Each week, I'm teasing out the principles that keep couples hopelessly devoted and intoxicatingly in love with each other for a lifetime and beyond. I'm searching high and low for the secrets of happily ever after and sharing those secrets with you right here. Sound marriage advice for Christian couples who want to live happily ever after and achieve a truly intimate friendship and passionate partnership, because an awesome marriage makes life so much sweeter. Let's get to it!
Marriage and Intimacy Tips for Christian Couples: Secrets of Happily Ever After
How Your Senses Are Key to Better Communication with Your Spouse with Nicole Villegas
Dr. Nicole Villegas, occupational therapist and founder of the Sensory Conscious Institute, explores how understanding nervous systems and sensory patterns helps build relationships rooted in safety, connection, and clarity.
• Beyond the five senses: interoception (internal feelings), vestibular (movement through space), and proprioception (body position awareness)
• Creating collaborative solutions versus compromises for different sensory preferences
• Using the Three C's: curiosity, compassion and consent in communication
• How unaddressed sensory needs lead to seemingly disproportionate reactions later
• The AHA method for regulation: Acknowledge, Honor, and take Action toward safety
• Signs your nervous system is dysregulated: racing heart, difficulty focusing, feeling "buzzy"
• Walking and talking as an effective strategy for difficult conversations
• Recognizing when your partner is overwhelmed through body language cues
• Using "I noticed..." statements instead of judgment when discussing sensory responses
• Learning to appreciate how sensory awareness creates opportunities for deeper connection
Visit drnicoleotd on Instagram or sensoryconcious.com to learn more about sensory practices and sign up for Dr. Nicole's newsletter "Refine" for small changes that make big differences.
Hello and welcome to the Secrets of Happily Ever After podcast. I'm your host, monica Tanner, and I'm really really excited about our guest today. She is Dr Nicole Villegas OTD, a doctor of occupational therapy and the founder of the Sensory Conscious Institute. She helps individuals and teams tune into their nervous systems and sensory patterns so they can build relationships rooted in safety, connection and clarity, both at home and in their leadership. Nicole teaches at Boston University and has been featured in BBC, ap News, tedx, real, simple and more. Welcome to the podcast, nicole. I am so excited for our conversation today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Yes, is there. Before we get started, is there anything else you would like the listeners to know about? Specifically, talk about what it means to be sensory conscious.
Speaker 2:I'm happy to you know we're going to talk a lot today about the senses and the nervous system and I was thinking about listeners to your amazing podcast and what I could bring so that you can all really make the most of this time and about being a sensory conscious partner, and that means understanding each other and understanding each other in a way that's beyond what you're thinking and what you assume about each other. So tuning into your nervous system, thinking about your partner, how they experience the world, how you experience the world, and how that in fact does impact how you show up together.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that so much, so okay. So when we're talking about the senses, obviously we're talking about five senses. There's more. Oh yeah, Well let's, let's hear it.
Speaker 2:Cause there's more. So we have our five senses that you often think about, plus one of my favorite is interoception, and that is the sense of your feelings inside your body. So we're going to get real here today. I'm just going to say that sense that you have to go to the bathroom, the sense you got grumbly in your tummy or you're super excited to go on a date with your spouse yeah, that's like the butterflies. Butterflies, exactly, exactly, or they just do something amazing and it takes your breath away. That's interoception working right there.
Speaker 1:Okay, so would that be like a sixth sense or just one there's more.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, yeah. So let's talk your vestibular system, that is your sense of moving through space. So forward motion, up and down motion, that means, oh, I just, I can't help but think about the moment in the rom-coms where people come together and there's that big lift off and the kiss, yeah, yeah, that one.
Speaker 1:The vestibular system is working, or when you first started talking about that, I was like like when I'm really clumsy and my husband laughs at me because I like trip over my own feet, yes, yes, exactly, and that's your proprioception, your sense of where you are in space.
Speaker 2:So if you find yourself, you know, tripping over your feet or hitting the counter or the table with your hip and you don't, you're like that table has been there for 15 years. Why did I just run into it for the 50th time this week? Yeah, yeah, that's your sense too.
Speaker 1:That is so funny. Okay, I love this. So let's talk about. I'm sure we'll talk about different senses as we go but what does it mean to be a sensory conscious partner or spouse?
Speaker 2:You know, that really means understanding each other on this nervous system level, to understand that our bodies are constantly scanning for safety and threat in our environment, and it's about recognizing that a person's tone of voice, sound around them, the texture in your space that you're spending time together, or even pace of your environment can create comfort and it can also create overwhelm, and we're all experiencing this in our own distinct way. So when we're sensory conscious, we're not just thinking about what our partner says or what they do, but we're also tuning into their body and the environment and thinking about how they might respond to the environment. And meeting each other with curiosity as you explore what might be going on in your nervous system, rather than reactivity or just jumping to conclusions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay, so that is like so important. But let's talk about like how do sensory preferences show up in daily life? So like I'm thinking about like I like it really hot and my husband like comes in and is like, oh my gosh, it's like a freaking sauna in here, Right, and then like immediately turns the air down, or you know like those types of things, like preferences, like yes, that is a, that is a perfect example.
Speaker 2:And that moment between his noticing that it doesn't fit his preference, but it does fit your preference, that's the moment for communication and connection. Yes, right, not only jumping to, oh, I'm going to shift this environment because it fits for me, but to look over and think, oh well, this really works for Monica. I wonder if this is soothing for you right now? Or what need is it meeting for you? And so that's that moment of being a sensory conscious spouse, thinking okay, I'm experiencing one thing, my spouse is experiencing another. How can we talk about this and create a space where it feels safe and comfortable for both of us?
Speaker 1:Right. And yeah, it's so amazing because, like in my 23 years of marriage, I have so many examples. For example, I like all the blinds up, like open, so that I get like sunlight. I like natural light, right and not the fluorescent lighting, and I'm home all day long. I like natural light right and not the fluorescent lighting, and I'm home all day long when it's sunny outside, Right, and so I have all the blinds open and my husband will come in and like immediately, doesn't even realize it is like closing all of the blinds because to him he's like we're wasting energy, Like the you know the sunshine coming in is heating up the house, and like making the air conditioning work harder and like all of these things.
Speaker 1:And so, yeah, living with another human, not to mention all of our children and their preferences. But you know, for 23 years, yeah, you can either just ignore each other's preferences and like move through life, just you know, according to your own preferences, or you can communicate just you know, according to your own preferences, or you can communicate about you know what your preferences are and come up with I like to say collaborative solutions, not compromises.
Speaker 2:Yes, collaborative solution that's such a beautiful way to put that, you know. I think about a collaborative solution to sound at home, right? So if one person is really into watching their show or video game or whatever else it might be, that's on in the background, while the other really really can't stand that sound. Yeah, you know, that's just the eruption starting. It's a slow eruption of oh no, what am I going to do? The reactivity would say, hey, turn that down. Or really going right into declarative statements of you need to do this and we should. All that stuff that's not going to be supportive for connection and safety and communication in the relationship, for connection and safety and communication in the relationship.
Speaker 2:So, yes, that that collaborative solution for being in the same physical space and both getting your needs met not only helps you in that moment but it helps you after the fact. So say you were having this, this difference in preferences around sound it was pretty loud in the house. The other person needs it quiet. If that person who needs it quiet ignores their need, you know, suppresses it down, just as oh, I'm going to push through this and then later you get to dinner and that person who suppressed their needs didn't, didn't, communicate what they needed. They were dysregulated during that time. You get to dinner and, oh, someone might say they have a short fuse. Yeah, no, something doesn't go right. The toast burns and it becomes a bigger emotional reaction or response to that moment and you're like wait, why are you so mad? The toast burned. Well, it turns out that three hours ago their dysregulation started and they didn't come together to address it.
Speaker 1:This is so awesome because, you know, I just wrote this book called Bad Marriage Advice and there's so many topics that I hit in the book that this is like really, I mean like, don't sweat the small stuff, like, oh, I'll be the bigger partner and I'll just ignore the fact that the TV is so loud I can't even concentrate on what I'm doing or you know, whatever it is, that's like not sweating the small stuff, but that small stuff becomes big stuff and it comes out sideways, right. Like then you explode over something and your partner's like what on earth just happened? Like, and I'm like I've been sitting here listening to the TV and I have a headache and you know your partner has no idea, unless you actually sweat the small stuff and communicated with them, right. But also this idea of compromise, like right, if you know, if you like it really cold in the house and I like it really hot in the house, and we compromise on where both of us are completely uncomfortable. You know, it's like there's so many just points that that hits on, which brings me to my next question.
Speaker 1:Because what, what I find is if you don't have really good communication about this and you don't have the skills to kind of work out solutions that work for both of you. So, like on the sound, there's number numberless ways to figure all of this out. But like on the sound, like maybe if my husband's deaf in one ear and so when he's watching TV it's really loud, and he watches TV downstairs, but if I'm trying to go to sleep it comes through the like, I can hear everything that he's watching. So if he's watching TV, the like, I can hear everything that he's watching. So if he's watching TV late at night, he'll watch something that he doesn't necessarily need the sound to understand, like sports, or something that he can figure out what's going on without the sound, or he'll turn on the subtitles, or he'll listen to something with his headphones. Right, there's like so many ways to collaboratively figure that out.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah. And that's a such a beautiful example because you are thinking about each other. In those moments, you're both getting your needs met, without that compromise where you're both feeling icky about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and there are so many solutions.
Speaker 2:So it can be fun to come together and I recommend that people come together and go through these things right Again with curiosity and with compassion. Those are two of the three C's of self-care I love to teach.
Speaker 1:Oh, let's start talking about those, because I think that's really important. Curiosity is so important, something I talk about all the time, like why is this important to me and why is it important to them? Right, and so you can figure out how to create the solution when you use curiosity and creativity, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes and compassion.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's a great C.
Speaker 2:When we bring compassion to that conversation, it means that judgment can can hold off a little bit. It can. It can take a seat. It doesn't need to enter the room and if it does, you bring up compassion again to say, oh, maybe that was a little judgy. Also, it turns out that my preference isn't good or bad, it just is. And your preference isn't good or bad, it it just is good or bad, right or wrong.
Speaker 1:They have no place in this, in these conversations. Right, Because it's just your preference and my preference.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes. And one of the most important C's from my perspective is consent. Okay, and we often talk about that word in certain spaces, but don't bring it to everyday conversation. But for me and for this, consent means are you saying yes in this moment? Are you saying no in this moment? It's also okay to say I don't know. I don't know if I'm wanting to have this conversation, but when you ask yourself, okay, am I saying yes to having this conversation with my spouse about our senses, and you do say yes, that signals to your nervous system some safety. So you're already preparing yourself for the compassion and the curiosity to be easier, because it's telling your nervous system oh hey, you said yes to this. This is an okay thing. We're choosing to do this, and that empowered yes gets you so much closer. It makes you so much closer together from the get-go when you start the conversation.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that. I love that and an example of curiosity. So this is like just I'm thinking about when my husband and I first were having kids, and we had little little kids, and he would take me on vacation and the like, for the first 24 hours of any vacation, no matter where we went, I I needed to like sleep a little bit, like in order to like catch up so that I could have an enjoyable time doing whatever we were doing. So it didn't matter if we went to like this beautiful paradise like I couldn't go out and sit on the beach or like do anything until I caught up on a little bit of sleep. And my husband, who wasn't necessarily like sleepy, tired, he wanted to watch TV, like no matter where we were, we could be in like Island paradise, and he's like I just he would just need it to kind of like decompress and like watch TV, and we're in this little tiny space together, right, and it's hard for me to sleep if he's watching TV, and so that's where we first. So this is this curiosity piece, right, like we just came to, you know, hawaii, where there's so much to see and do, and like tell me how you're feeling and what do you need right now? And I would be like I just need to sleep, for, like, give me like 24 hours or 12 hours to just sleep, and then I'm good to go.
Speaker 1:And my husband's like well, you know, I don't want to go somewhere without you, but I don't think I can sleep right now. And so that's when he started watching TV with the sound off, like he would just catch us up on the sports highlights or whatever it is that he can turn the subtitles on if he wants to watch something. But he would just sit in the hotel room and he would watch show while I, with the, with no sound, while I slept. And then we could wake up and like both of us were like we got, we were so filled now and we can go do something fun, right. But it took some curiosity, compassion, consent and creativity for us to like come up with that. Otherwise it would just be like I just brought you to Hawaii, why are you sleeping, right? Or like vice versa, like we're off on vacation together, you're watching a show. It takes some compassion and some real curiosity about what is needful for both partners.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh, that was such a beautiful example. To think now that that's where it started. And when it comes to late night TV watching, you've created a solution for that. So, over time, how that's evolved in your relationship, and just to reflect it started with you to identifying what you needed in that moment and there's no doubt that what you needed whether it's the nap or I'm going to frame it as some visual stimulation through the TV right A moment to get his head out of the current environment, right To kind of escape for a minute before coming back. Um, that that's also based on your nervous system and the needs of your nervous system in the moment.
Speaker 2:Totally and the other part of that recognize that in yourself means you can communicate it. Then you can show up together and come up with those solutions.
Speaker 1:Communication is so important. The other part of that that I forgot is the reason why he loved catching up on sports when we would travel is because we didn't pay for cable at home, and so he is a big, huge sports guy, right. So we would go to a hotel and he'd be like sweet, flipping through the sports channels, right.
Speaker 2:What a treat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he didn't have to listen to them, but to see you know what was going on and be able to catch up on the highlights was like his favorite thing in the whole wide world. So now I'm getting what I need, he's getting what he needs and now we can just enjoy each other Right. So it's like so important. But this is going to be my favorite topic of of this interview. I'm just certain of it. But like when? So I feel like when we're not getting our sensory needs met, but sometimes it's like periphery, like we don't really realize that we're overstimulated, and then we snap at our partner or we're just really edgy or, um, yeah, like it comes out sideways. So I really want to talk about ways to kind of deescalate when our nervous systems are deregulated. And I'll start with a story.
Speaker 1:This is like super vulnerable but like this happened this morning. So I was thinking about we're doing this interview and I'm like this is so funny that this just happened, because I can tell you right now I am so overstimulated. My son just got married, my daughter just graduated. I've had so much company in my house for five days. I have both sets of my parents, so my mom and then I have my dad and my step-mom and they historically don't get along that well and so like all day long for five days I'm like entertaining them and I've got all my kids at home and just so much going on.
Speaker 1:So like I know that my nervous system is on high alert and I am so overstimulated. And so this morning my husband asked me a question and he asked me the same question twice and maybe I didn't answer loud enough for him to hear me. I told you he's like half deaf, so I don't think I answered loud enough for him to hear me the first time. And so the second time he asked the question I went okay, it just flew out of my mouth In his face. He was like like I had just thrown a projectile at him, like he was so like, oh my gosh, why did you react that way?
Speaker 2:Right, he was taken aback. He even took the step back. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean his whole body. He was just like whoa, like what on earth, right and I'm thinking about the old me that would have been like what the heck is your like he. He would have said what the heck is your problem? And I would have said what the heck is your problem, and it would have escalated into a huge argument that we would have had a really hard time coming out of.
Speaker 1:But I immediately recognized his reaction and I was like I'm so sorry, like I'm so sorry, I'm overstimulated, I'm tired, I'm like you know, I feel like I just have so much going on in my head and I feel, like you know, frustrated that you didn't hear me the first time, and so it, like that, just came out I am so sorry and he's like it's cool, you know. And so we deescalated. But I want to talk about ways in which, because I'm super, I am super aware that I'm overstimulated right now, but there are definite times when I'm not aware that I'm just being overstimulated by my environment and the things that are happening, and then we snap at each other and it starts a big fight, and then we don't even know what we're fighting about and off to the races Just like it was.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for sharing that, because it is vulnerable to be honest and open, and I think in your community, this beautiful create community that you've created like this, is what it's about, right, being honest and being open about what really is happening so that you can also receive the support of the community and you know your book and reach out to you. You're you're walking the talk. You're not just talking about it.
Speaker 1:Well, and I'm telling you we're not perfect, like by any means, because, like you know, we were fine for about 30 minutes and then, you know, about an hour later, we got into a big argument about because we disagreed about whether the tires need to be changed on the car. So I mean we have skills that we've worked on, but when we are not accessing those skills, it is a disaster. Just like everybody else who fights in their marriage, right so it. I am coming to you, the expert, and being like how do we deescalate when our our nervous systems are so amped up and everything feels like danger?
Speaker 2:Yeah, your awareness of that dysregulation one is one of the most important things. And in order to practice that awareness it's a skill, right, it's just for anybody who's just starting this, it's not something that we've been taught, it really isn't. Most of us have been taught oh, just push through, you're okay, hold it together, that kind of thing. So it really is a skill to notice in the first place, and we can start with just the signs that happen in our body. So we talked about interoception for a minute, the sense that your heart is racing a little bit more. Or if you can feel your hands, your hands might be sweating or other areas of your body that usually sweats.
Speaker 2:For you, this is a sympathetic response. In your nervous system. You might find that you kind of hyper focus on a task that you're doing or, conversely, it can be very, very difficult to focus. So you do one thing it can be for 10 seconds and then you switch over. It's really hard to be present in whatever that thing is that you're doing. Your breathing rate might change, you might just feel kind of buzzy inside. At least that's what happens for me I'm like, ooh, I'm feeling, feeling a little buzzy right here, and that's that sympathetic response. So when we have a stressful moment, our body responds by releasing some cortisol and adrenaline right, these things that get our heart pumping and get us moving when we're stressed Because our body senses danger.
Speaker 1:Is that right?
Speaker 2:Exactly. Yeah, there's some type of threat and when our body is experiencing that danger, that threat, it doesn't know that. Oh, it's actually just your husband asking a question. We're these sweet animals that are just responding to it as if it was a tiger coming at you, responding to it as if it was, you know, a tiger coming at you. So those responses or reactions that you have are just you trying to regain some sense of safety, and that's why they're not always the most skillful and that's why sometimes we fight right, that's the big snap, or we're just like get me out of here, and you run out the room, or you need to burrito yourself up in bed and say nobody, talk to me, leave me alone.
Speaker 2:Those are signs that our nervous system is pretty active, it's responding to a threat or a stressful moment. And those are signs outside of ourselves that we could look into, look at, to notice. All right, something might be going on here. And so there's your first step just noticing. And that in and of itself is a skill to continuously work on, continuously refine it. It's in those little ways that you refine your understanding of yourself that can help in a big way.
Speaker 2:So if you're already dysregulated and it's been happening over the course of a few days, your body may not be as resourced to deal with the additional input. Say of your example of your husband asking you another question right, your cup is full and that one more drop is just too much, and that one more drop is just too much. So in that moment it sounds like you were able to notice because of his response wow, what you just did was out of the norm, it was out of a space of regulation for you. Yes, right In your communication. So when that happens again, it's this honesty, compassion, right, the curiosity for yourself just to say out loud whoa. I wasn't expecting that either. I think I need to take care of myself for a minute before we continue this right. It's that pause, that intentional, thoughtful pause, and it doesn't need to be pretty. You can say I don't know what that was right there, but I think I need to take care of myself before we continue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally. I mean totally. But I noticed for me, when I'm talking and I'm dysregulated, my husband calls this pinging. He's like you're pinging? And I'm like, yes, because I'm amped up and I'm agitated and I'm trying to work it out. I'm a very verbal processor where he is an internal processor, so I'm like pinging all over the place trying to figure out what the heck is going on with me and he's not responding to me and that makes me even more agitated.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so that energy.
Speaker 1:And I'm like freaking, respond to me and he's like you're pinging.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's such a such a good way to say that when you receive him saying that, are you able to, are you able to receive it.
Speaker 1:Yes, years later now, like years later, I'm like you're right, I'm pinging, I'm agitated, like let me go organize my thoughts. Like let me go for a walk or move my body. Or sometimes he'll be like can I get you to the gym? Like you should go to the gym Cause I, like I have a lot of energy and I'm just pinging Right, or it could mean time for bed, like. Like sometimes he's like all right, I'm going to handle the dishes or whatever. Like you should just go to bed and I'll just go in my room and if I can't sleep right away, I'll read a book or something. But like now I get it.
Speaker 1:Now it's like, oh, pinging means I am agitated or, you know, too amped up, my nervous system isn't regulating and I just need to take a break. But what used to? He'd say that it would just make me well, he wouldn't say anything. That's the thing. He wouldn't say anything. I'm processing everything verbally, like throwing words at him and he's not saying anything. And I'm like are you even listening to me? Like what is the problem? And it would just get me more agitated. So that wasn't good.
Speaker 2:Right, right. So, intuitively, you're already helping each other in a way that makes sense, based on what we know about the nervous system.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So if you are activated in that way or agitated that's our sympathetic response your body is like we are in action mode. We are going to do stuff. We don't know exactly what we're going to do. It might be a little disorganized, might be super, super excited. Again, these are states that just are right. It just, it just is what it is. So that is the compassion for it. So, in that moment, that's where you are, and there's my approach towards regulation is called aha, like aha, cause I think bringing in the fun is really great, yeah, yeah. So first we acknowledge and that's just what you did, right, acknowledge, oh, I'm pinging right now. Yeah, okay. The second is to honor. To honor means to turn towards that pinging energy and intuitively doing that through going to the gym, going on a walk. This is moving your body, this is doing more of the activation Because, again, like I said, we have cortisol and adrenaline that are running through our body.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're ready to run from a tiger.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, I am activated right now, so honor that by turning towards it a little more. It doesn't have to be a big thing. Some daily practices that I like are to shake it out. You can do a dance. You can give your body some proprioceptive input through deep pressure. You can do some wall pushups. Think about whatever it is your body is saying I need to do. Maybe you just want to jump around, maybe you want to scream. Sometimes it might mean pulling out some paper and ripping it up and throwing it away. These could be. You can make it tactile sensory things.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly Like use your senses. It might mean that you have a song that you like to rock out to when you're activated and you turn that song on and you're just leaning into it, you're allowing your body to feel what it's needing to feel in that moment and to process. So this is happening at the cellular level and after you do. That is our last A and that's your action towards a sense of safety or connection, aka regulation. Right. So to be in this state and say you decide, you know what I'm just going to, I'm going to walk, go into the room, I'm going to shake it out, I'm going to pound some pillows, whatever needs to get done. You're likely going to have more mental clarity after that or feel a little lighter again because of the neurotransmitters and hormones that are moving in our body, and to move towards a sense of safety and connection.
Speaker 2:It might mean that you return to conversation with your husband. It might mean that you return to conversation with your husband. Or, if you have pets that you can turn towards or your favorite podcast that you like to listen to, other self-soothing activities that can bring you to a place of knowing hey, I'm not alone in this and I'm safe right now. So on the sensory side, you know, our eyes give us a lot of input into our, our safety. So one of these actions towards safety and connection could simply be looking out at a distance, or something I love to do is, if you're inside, is to trace the shape of your windows or a picture frame with your eyes.
Speaker 1:That's really interesting.
Speaker 2:So aha is something that we can all do when we're having those moments.
Speaker 1:Okay, acknowledge honor and action. I love that so much. One thing I have noticed over the years that is so helpful in like regulating my nervous system. But also I tell all of my clients the how important it is to walk and talk. So like I've noticed that difficult conversations or conversations where I would tend to ping Sometimes I'm like let's go for a walk and talk about this, because that way I'm in action, I'm in motion and that's kind of getting some of the energy out. That would be the pinging energy and like I don't require it seems like when we're walking together, I feel connected and I don't require that he like responds immediately. But if we're just like looking at each other, it's like I just said something that I like why are you not responding Right Like it's really interesting.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly. So I want you and your listeners to not only know oh, here are some things that Nicole said I can do. I'm gonna go rip up paper when I'm feeling mad Right, that's great. But I also want to share with you the reason why, like the reason why behind these things, and why they help us. So let's think about your pinging.
Speaker 2:You're in an activated state, there's a sense of a threat, and from that sympathetic state we often look at fight or flight. So there's fight Ah, get those words out. But for flight, it's, it's movement, it's get me out of here. And what does walking simulate? Rather, what are you actually doing? You were moving your body through space, yeah, right. So you're getting that vestibular input, you're getting new smells, your eyes are able to scan the environment and as your eyes are scanning the environment, you're taking in signals of safety. So you're no longer stuck in a small space expecting some type of response from your spouse that's going to magically regulate you, because we know that we are not depending on our spouse's responses to do that for us, right, right.
Speaker 1:Right, it's within us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it makes sense that the walk allows you to shift the energy of those conversations, because you are getting your sensory needs met in that moment and it also sounds like there's a self soothing aspect for you, and so you can speak more clearly about what you need to communicate, in a way that you're doing it from, from compassion and with that curiosity and consent together, cause you you chose to take the walk together and work on it collaboratively for that solution, like you said.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so important. Uh, this is like I knew that that part, the aha, was going to be just so helpful, because I know that, like you know, this is like when you say things that you wish you could take back and you know it's all. When you're dysregulated, when your nervous system is like feeding you yes, all of that cortisol, and you know you, just you're in what I like to call that. I learned from Terry real and relational therapy is you're in your adaptive child, so it's like this younger version of you that's trying to keep you safe. That's what's coming out. It's not actually good communication skills. So you can have all the good communication skills in the world, but when you're activated and you're in your adaptive child, you're not going to use those Right, and so it's really important to have that aha to acknowledge like, okay, I am extremely activated right now. It is not my wise adult. You know.
Speaker 1:Prefrontal cortex that's online right now. It's my amygdala, it's reacting. You know I'm feeling cortex that's online right now. It's my amygdala, it's reacting. You know, I'm feeling like I need to protect myself and retaliate and do whatever it is that I do when I'm in that activated state and maybe I honor that Maybe I take a break. Maybe I'm like, I cannot respond to you from my wise adult self right now, and so I need to take a break. I need to take a walk, I need to rip some paper, whatever it is, to take that action towards getting back into a state where I can actually have a good conversation with you or communicate my needs, or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:So good. Okay, so here is. This is huge for me. What are some signs that you're missing your partner's sensory cues and how do you repair from that? Because this is huge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you. Well, our example really fits, you know, if your, your partner, partner, your spouse, kind of snaps out of nowhere or they go quiet in the middle of the conversation and you're kind of wondering, oh wait, what happened? What's wrong, you catch yourself wow, was I just going off on a ramp for the last 20 minutes? And you were sitting there with a blank you know blank stare. If someone's withdrawing, that's you know blank stare. If someone's withdrawing, that's signaling you know their freeze response and there's some protection there. Again, the body is responding to a sense of threat. So these are signs that you can look for, even if your partner is getting more and more activated.
Speaker 2:I think that's the typical kind of argument scenario that we often see both people getting more and more activated. But these more subtle versions of quietness, of moving around a lot like not looking comfortable in their body you might even see a person covering their ears a little bit more. They we often do these things without even realizing it. But if you're watching your spouse in front of you and you're saying, oh, actually you look uncomfortable. Oh, okay, is this making? Is this making you feel uncomfortable? Are you open to talking about it? Hey, I noticed you got really quiet. Was that too much for your system? For right now you could even ask did I say something or is something happening that's making you feel overwhelmed? It's not about the blame or creating shame in the relationship. It's not about that. It's about understanding each other. So you can even say I want to understand how you're responding and how your body is responding a little bit more so I can show up in a supportive way next time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so good. So that's that repair. It's just getting curious, and I love the phrasing of I noticed you got really quiet or I noticed you're looking uncomfortable. Is there something that I could do next time to help you feel more supportive?
Speaker 2:or yes, yes, oh, it's huge. I mean, for some people they've never heard that and, depending on how they grew up, they might not have heard that or they did, but then it came. It followed with conditional statements or conditional love. But for someone to say, oh hey, I noticed this in you, you know, that's helping us meet our needs to be seen and to be understood and for someone to offer I'd like to get more information so I can show up in a more supportive way next time. That's a beautiful gift that you can give each other and you can offer those, those questions and that guidance.
Speaker 2:Whether or not you're having a difficult time, it could be, it could be a great evening together. And you still say that, oh, I noticed that you, you know you seemed really relaxed tonight. Oh, what a gift to hear that from someone you know. Hear it reflected, you know what. I was really relaxed. And then maybe they say I want to understand that. What was it about tonight that helped you feel relaxed? Because I love to do more of that and support you to feel more relaxed. I mean, how good is that?
Speaker 1:Yes, these are just really really like emotionally mature ways to communicate with your spouse, because I know, like the younger versions of me who didn't have these skills, it's like what the heck is wrong with you, you know. Like I mean, that is the question, right. It's like when you feel prompted to ask that question, like what's wrong with you? Why are you? Why do you look so uncomfortable? Why are you not saying anything? Why Like? Instead like catch yourself and be like okay, you actually are curious, but like can you be lovingly and compassionately curious about your partner? And and and really so, if you want, like the cheat code for that, it's really the phrase.
Speaker 1:I noticed, I noticed you went quiet tonight when we were talking about this certain topic, or I noticed that you know you got really uncomfortable at dinner when this topic was brought up or when I started, you know, talking about our sex life or whatever. It is right, like I noticed. And then just what you noticed? Like what a video camera would pick up. Not like I noticed you acted like a big fat jerk when blah, blah, blah. Right, like that's not helpful, but if you can say, I noticed, and then whatever, the security cam footage would pick up and then you get curious about that with your partner. You're going to learn so much about each other and you really will learn how to support each other and you know what the overstimulation with the activation, what the discomfort all of that is about and that is.
Speaker 1:That is, like you said, it's such a gift to be curious about that with your partner, cause it's always it's going to be changing all the time. Right, like my husband could have easily. Like I learned a lot about my husband this weekend with my dad, you know, like it's his father-in-law, and I notice certain things when, when my dad's in town, and the way my husband responds and I could just be like, why were you a jerk to my dad tonight? Or I could be like, hey hon, I noticed that when my dad was talking about politics, you got uncomfortable. Can you tell me more about what that was about?
Speaker 2:Right, like yes, it's just. That's opening the door for connection.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's like I'm not judging you. I want to know more about you.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly and how beautiful. I'm not judging you. I want to know more about you Exactly, exactly and how beautiful. I think that is one of the greatest gifts of being in a partnership or in a marriage. You are with someone over time and you get to learn about them over time and we will evolve into different versions of ourselves. I think that is so beautiful, and then you can continually learn about this person. It's not only about things that they did in their life or achievements in the past or whatever it is, but how their worldview shifts, how their understanding of their senses shift, for example right.
Speaker 2:How they maybe for a while were really sensitive to something and then the season changed and they're feeling a little bit better about it. How like, how cool that it opens up this whole other area for us to explore in our relationship and our connection and continuously get to know this person you are choosing to spend your life with. I love it it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:I love it because I talk a lot about communication and being curious about each other, each other's thoughts and preferences, but I've never considered bringing sensory into it, sensitivities and preferences and things like that. So like, not only do you want to understand your partner's opinions and their thoughts and their ideas, but understanding their sensory preferences and sensitivities is huge yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a foundation that shapes all of those other things. You wonder why a person doesn't like to go to the grocery store. Yes, they don't like to go to the grocery store. They might not even be aware of the fact that. Well, they enter this place with bright lights and lots of people and a whole bunch of decisions and the potential for letting you down because they got the wrong thing all of this.
Speaker 2:But on the sensory side, there is so much going on, and so them saying, oh no, I'm avoiding going to the grocery store, saying they don't want to go, might not be a personal thing to you. It might be very personal to them because it's their sensory experience. But without having these conversations, we aren't applying the curiosity to our senses and so we can't be sensitive and thoughtful about it. And thoughtful about it. And once you discover, oh well, actually, oh so, yeah, when I, when I do go to the grocery store, it doesn't feel good and I'm exhausted after. So maybe you weren't procrastinating because of any other reason other than your body's telling you it doesn't feel good to be there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just feel like your actions follow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it just opens the doors to so much more understanding and the ability to be a really good, understanding, compassionate partner to each other. So this has been awesome, Like I. Like I'm just giddy because I feel like there's so much goodness and like depth in this conversation for our listeners. Like you could listen to this a few times and get more of how to be more curious and compassionate and um have consent and create just a better connection with your partner, um, by listening to this episode. So, Nicole, thank you so much for being on the show today. Will you tell the listeners where they can find out more about sensory sensitivities and all the work that you do?
Speaker 2:is at drnicoletd D-R-N-I-C-O-L-E-O-T-D, and sensoryconsciouscom is the website that you can go to to learn more about these practices and offers that might be coming up. We talked earlier about how small changes can make a really big difference, and that's exactly what I share in my newsletter. It's called refine, so we touch on the things that we could refine in our daily lives to make those big changes over time, so you're welcome to join me there. Excellent, thank you so, so much.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me, Monica.