Marriage and Intimacy Tips for Christian Couples: Secrets of Happily Ever After
Have you ever wondered what makes the difference between those couples who absolutely LOVE to be together and the ones who merely tolorate each other in their old age? I always want to run up to the cute old couples who still hold hands while walking down the street and ask them all their secrets to relationship success. This podcast gives me the opportunity to do just that!
I'm Monica Tanner, wife to a super hunky man, mom to 4 kids, weekly podcaster and relationship and intimacy expert/enthusiast. I help couples ditch the resentment and roommate syndrome and increase communication, connection and commitment, so they can write and live out their happily ever after love story. If that sounds like something you want, this podcast is absolutely for YOU!
Each week, I'm teasing out the principles that keep couples hopelessly devoted and intoxicatingly in love with each other for a lifetime and beyond. I'm searching high and low for the secrets of happily ever after and sharing those secrets with you right here. Sound marriage advice for couples who want to live happily ever after and achieve a truly intimate friendship, because an awesome marriage makes life so much sweeter. Let's get to it!
Marriage and Intimacy Tips for Christian Couples: Secrets of Happily Ever After
A Discussion about Relational Life Therapy with Risa Ganel, LCMFT
Explore the transformative power of Relational Life Therapy (RLT) and how it can help couples break free from unhealthy patterns to foster deeper connections. Risa Ganel discusses how the adaptive child, systemic changes, and a focus on second-order change can reshape relationships for lasting benefit.
• RLT emphasizes systemic connections in relationships
• Differentiates between first-order and second-order change
• Focus on nurturing the ‘adaptive child’ for emotional growth
• Importance of personal accountability and choice in relationships
• The role of communication in nourishing intimacy
• Opportunities for couples' growth through bootcamps and workshops
Check out Risa's Bootcamps here: https://www.togethercouplescounseling.com
Find an RLT Therapist or Coach here: https://directory.relationallife.com/
Book a FREE Relationship Breakthrough call with me here: https://tidycal.com/onthebrightersideoflife/call
Hello and welcome to the Secrets of Happily Ever After podcast. I'm your host, Monica Tanner, and I'm super excited to share the mic with a faculty member at the Relational Life Institute. Her name is Risa Ganel and we are going to have a conversation all about RLT and why it is such a great thing for couples to experience together, why you should choose RLT as your therapy or coaching of choice, and how your relationship could benefit. So help me welcome Risa Ganel, and I will let you just talk about a little bit about your history, how you got into this and what you love about it.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you. Thank you, monica. It's really fabulous to be here and to share what RLT is with your audience. I am a marriage and family therapist. I've been in practice for over 30 years and can't believe that when that number comes out my mouth, I still feel like I'm 20.
Speaker 2:But one of the ways that I got into working with couples really happened when I was about. I think I was about 10 years old I don't remember the exact age, but about 10 when I was at sleepaway camp and of the 12 young girls in my bunk my parents were the only parents who were still married, and I remember writing a passionate letter home to my parents, all about this. My mother saved it for many years and it really struck me back then at that young age. And look, I was the kind of kid whose friends all came to her for friendship, advice, relationship advice. I was a listening ear. I was the one saying do this, don't do that, and wow, that must really hurt, right.
Speaker 2:I was an empathic kid still am as an adult, and so I think that those kinds of experiences in my personality started me as a couples therapist at a young age, and so I went on to pursue psychology undergrad and then really felt that there was something missing when my classes were all focused on individuals and said, oh, this just feels like it doesn't make sense, like we all live in a family. Why are we talking about individual psychopathology? You know like we are much more than that and I got introduced to marriage and family therapy and just followed that path from there. So back when I studied, which was in the early 90s, couples therapy, therapy in general, did not have as many what I'll refer to as silos as it has today. Right, everybody knows about Gottman theory of couples therapy. Everybody knows about EFT right.
Speaker 2:And now there's RLT, which has been around for many, many years. But back when I trained as a systemic family therapist, we didn't have these individual thoughts and theories in the way that we do now. And back then, as they started to emerge, I said I'm not going to. No, that's not for me, I'm not going to train in one specific modality, because I didn't think and I didn't think that trying to fit every relationship and every couple that came into my door into one way of working with them, I didn't think that was effective, I didn't think it was reasonable. Then I discovered Terry Real when I was at a conference, and he changed my mind because of what relational life therapy is and how systemically oriented it is. Now that may sound like what does systemically oriented mean.
Speaker 2:Right. But essentially it means that everything we do in our relationship impacts somebody else and everything somebody else does impacts us. So we can, if we think of that as a system, just like the environment is a system, right, if we pollute? I live on the Chesapeake Bay. If we pollute the waters of the Chesapeake Bay, it's going to affect the waters in Aruba. We're all interconnected in the same way nature is. We're all interconnected in the same way nature is. So systemically oriented therapy recognizes the power of that systemic connection and looks for ways to intervene in the system to help change problems or symptoms or dynamics for the entire system.
Speaker 1:Well, I think for me, one of the things that really struck me finding Terry's work is that it creates this behavioral change that's lasting. And we all know change is really hard, especially when you're an adult and especially when you've been married for a number of years and you've operated in the same way, you know, for a very, very long time. So change is difficult and we resist it. And how? Talk a little bit about how RLT creates change within a system.
Speaker 2:Sure, no, it's a great question and yes, change can be difficult and that's partly because of neurobiology. But to answer your question as to how RLT creates change within a system, we look for what we call second order change in relational life there. So let me give you an example of what first order change would be. So let's say, if I just make this up, a husband feels unappreciated for the work he does around the house, that it goes unnoticed, and so he withdraws emotionally. Well, the wife feels abandoned when he does that and criticizes him for being distant, and round and round they go in this pattern of resentment. First order change would be helping them figure out. Okay, the wife is going to verbally express thank you, I appreciate that you did the dishes, I appreciate that you put away the laundry and the husband's going to commit to staying present in discussions, let's say, instead of withdrawing. Okay, those are changes that occur on the surface. I don't mean this in a negative way, because I think the work that is being done in this is really fabulous.
Speaker 2:But some of you may have heard of fair play, the system fair play for helping couples renegotiate how the mental load and things that are done around the house need to be taken care of differently.
Speaker 2:It's great, but it's first order change, it's not second order change. Second order change in the example that I gave, would be where the couple learns to understand their patterns, where those patterns came from, partly from how they grew up. And what I'll say is like the coding we all download in the families we grew up in, you know, the withdrawal, let's say, might be a protective mechanism from being criticized. Maybe this person really had a critical parent and learned to withdraw as a coping mechanism. So the couple comes together to understand that pattern and to create a new narrative for themselves as a unit, so that they can both break out of the old coding together. So they find ways to create a new story for themselves and to operate in that new story in a new way with skills, particularly new skills that they never learned growing up. And this helps create second order change rather than just surface or first order change.
Speaker 1:Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely, and I love it and I've seen this in action many times when I've watched Terry or one of you work with a couple. It's not just you know, here is a script for you to follow and things for you to do. It's like really diving deep into how you yes, in RLT we call it the adaptive child how the adaptive child was formed and how in relationship now. So we like to say adaptive, then maladaptive.
Speaker 1:Now the adaptive child comes out and makes a mess of this current relationship because of how it learned to operate back then when it was more necessary. So and I think it's such a I, I, I always I get tearful every time I watch somebody create a relationship with their adaptive child where they're loving them, where they're giving them limits and guidance and creating that relationship so that when it starts to, you know, come out and panic, that they can talk them down, that they can put them in the, in the back seat and they can explain to them you know what, how wonderful they were, you know and and helping them grow up. But how, now that the adult is going to take care of it and they just get to sit and relax and watch and and and be loved um and accepted, right, right, but not drive in the relationship.
Speaker 2:Right, you clearly know a lot about RLT as I hear you talk about it, which is fabulous.
Speaker 2:And here's the thing RLT focuses on, as you're describing not only your relationship to the other person, but your relationship to yourself and to your younger self. So I'll give you an example of something from my own life that I learned to do by my studies of RLT and helping people. I tend to be a ruminator, so I can climb into bed tired, but then the minute my head hits the pillow, I start thinking and ruminating about all the conversations I could have, should have, wish I'd had of whatever's stressing me out. Pick the latest thing and I'll be ruminating about it in my head, about it in my head. Well, part of the work that rlt helped me do just with me right, this is just with me is now I lay my head down on the pillow and I say to my younger self, who I call riri because that was my nickname when I was a kid cute. I say, riri, what you need right now is to go to sleep. We can have all of these conversations in the morning. We don't need to have them right now. You can, I'm taking care of you, and what we need right now is sleep.
Speaker 2:And then I sing to myself a song that I used to sing to my daughter when I was helping her fall asleep how the work of RLT can help us manage our own anxieties, our own ways of getting in our own way and you know, you said before, change can be difficult. Rlt helps us have the practice of relational skills. It is not something like being relational a healthy relationship is not something you have, but it's something that you do. Okay, so it's not like, oh, I can do this today. Therefore, tomorrow I'll be just as good at it because I learned this skill today. No, it's like an exercise routine or yoga or meditation. The more you do the things that are necessary to create second order change, the better you get at it, the more practiced you get at it and RLT works with our neurobiology.
Speaker 2:It works with how brains change and through practice, you shift into the skills eventually, over time, becoming a trait rather than something that's just on the surface rather than something that's just on the surface. Yeah, that's one of the really important pieces of how RLT is different from other modalities of couples therapy that are out there. Yeah, and if you want, I can talk to the five things that are really important to RLT, but I see you have questions.
Speaker 1:Well, I definitely. I definitely want to talk about what makes RLT different than traditional couples therapy, and I think it's so cool that you were trained in traditional couples therapy and then chose RLT out of all the different modalities that were available. But right, just before you go into that, I will say that since I started, you know, studying RLT and coaching couples in that way is I've had couples come to me who are like we've been in therapy for years and years and years. We've learned so many skills we know, we can name these skills, we know what you know, we can describe them to you, tell you how to do them, but in the heat of the moment we cannot access them.
Speaker 1:And the coolest thing about RLT is in the second phase of it, we actually deal with that adaptive child which is standing in the way of people actually accessing skills. So you can go and learn tons of skills you can listen to podcasts, you can read books, you can. You can be so knowledgeable on how to have a great relationship, all the skills that you need, right. But until you deal with that adaptive child, until you reparent them, you won't be able to access those skills. And so what's so cool is I have been with a couple and just unlocked that little piece that we like to call going from first consciousness to second consciousness, or being able to talk to or create that relationship with that adaptive child. And then all of a sudden their relationship completely changes. And sometimes it's something so simple as taking five minutes to go in the other room have a quick conversation with that adaptive child and they come out and they're like a totally different person to interact with because they now know what is standing in the way and blocking them from using those skills.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly, and when I said before that it's a practice, relationality is a practice, that it's a practice, relationality is a practice. Second consciousness is the doing is what the practice of, if that makes sense, you know. First consciousness is our reactivity. Yeah, it's when we get that whoosh, as Terry refers to it, that comes over us quickly, immediately, and we respond with whatever our tendency to respond is, which could be shutting down and avoiding. It could be lashing out verbally, storming out of the room. Right, it comes in all different colors and flavors, colors and flavors. That's our first consciousness, our reactive response.
Speaker 2:Second consciousness is the ability to pause the moment you feel that whoosh, to take a breath, take a beat and to make a choice. And it is in that choice where we have freedom from our reactive response. You can choose to do it the old way. You know what you're going to get if you do it the old way, but if you make a choice to do something different, you're going to affect the system differently and have the possibility of a new interaction with your partner. It's not a guarantee, but it is a new possibility and that's a significant part of what we help people strengthen the ability to do, to take that pause, and sometimes that pause needs to be longer than just a breath, and that's okay and to help create a negotiate and agreement between each other that when one of us feels the whoosh, we get to take a time out.
Speaker 2:It's a unilateral decision. I need to time out. I know that if I respond to you right now, I'm going to respond in my reactive way. I don't want to do that. I want to be able to engage with you from an integrated brain or wise mind referred to many different ways, rather than my reactive mind. When you have that agreement with your partner, you can give each other the space to take a timeout, to take a breath and to choose a different response, a different reaction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you have a couple and maybe they're listening to this podcast and they're like, yeah, it's probably time for us to go see somebody. We have the same fights over and over again. We're, you know, one of us or both of us are very resentful. I'm not getting what I want out of this relationship. Whatever their main chief complaint is, what would you say would be reasons why they would choose an RLT trained therapist over just a traditional marriage counselor that uses a different modality?
Speaker 2:Well, here are some of the things, some of which I've already mentioned, but the reason RLT is the way to go as far as I'm concerned is because of some of the principal beliefs about RLT and what it's rooted in. First, it's rooted in the belief that we are all designed to be relational. That means that it is our birthright. It's something we are born to be and things have disconnected us from our ability to be relational in a healthy way, but we can find our way back to it. The second is that RLT is rooted in the fact, in the belief, that relationality is not just for you, it's for future generations and it's never too late, no matter how old you are, no matter how many years you've been together, no matter how grown your children are, that when you start to implement the changes and a way of relating and the skills, it has ripple effects. So it's not for you alone.
Speaker 2:There's a very known quote by Terry Real. I'll do my best to recreate it here, but it speaks to this so powerfully, so I want your listeners to hear. This. Family dysfunction rolls downhill like a fire through the woods, taking down everyone in its path, until one person has the courage to stand and turn and face the flames. That person brings peace to his ancestors and hope to the generations that follow. We call that person a hero. I get chills every time I say or think about that quote because if you're used to, let's say, the pattern of every time you get triggered by your spouse, you scream and yell, and you experienced the screaming and yelling by one of your parents when you were a child, you know the pain of experience being screamed and yelled at. When you muster the courage and have the support to change that pattern, it changes the world. One relationship at a time, one family at a time.
Speaker 1:I love that concept so much I call that this is my brand is kind of secrets, of happily ever after writing your story, and so I call the person who has the courage to do that the transitional character, because they change the storyline that's passed down from generation to generation, and it's such a beautiful and powerful position to be in being able to shield your posterity from the dysfunction that you were handed.
Speaker 2:Because I think this part sometimes gets left out. We do want to change and stop the dysfunction we were handed, but we do want to promote the positives we were handed from our families. Some of us were handed some really relational ways of being and we want to support that and help carry that forward yeah, that's called you and amplify it right, and that's part of what.
Speaker 2:Yes, to know the difference, and that's a part of what RLT helps couples do as well. We talked about how it's a practice first and second consciousness, second consciousness being the doing and the last. The fifth piece of RLT that is really different is that we believe we always have a choice. We believe in personal accountability and responsibility. Even when there are things that some of us struggle with that might make it harder to make a choice, harder to do something different. If we struggle with mental health issues, if there's neurodiversity, none of that means we can't do the things that are more relational in our relationships. It may be a little trickier, a little harder, but it still can be done. We still have the choice. And I guess this other piece is really important.
Speaker 2:Look, therapy has been known to really help people come up from the depths of shame, and therapists are really great at helping clients become empowered and connected to their sense of self-esteem. However, one of the pieces that RLT does, like no other that I have seen, is it helps bring people down, bring them in from outer space. We like to call it from being grandiose, from being better than seeing themselves or their ways or their ideas as better than anybody else's. Brings you down from judgment and into connection. You know there's a lot of talk like. One of the buzzwords of today is narcissism, right?
Speaker 2:You can look on TikTok, you can look on Instagram and find all the things about narcissism. Look, most people this is what I'm talking about when I say grandiosity the traits of narcissism. The reality is you wouldn't know it from TikTok and Instagram, but the reality is most like it's a very small number of people who are actually diagnosably narcissists. However, there are a lot of people walking around with traits narcissistic behaviors that get in the way of them having truly intimate, connected relationships, and that's what RLT is well known for helping make changes to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's so significant because when people come to therapy, what's really interesting is the grandiose partner most of the time doesn't feel like there's anything wrong because you know they're just living their best life and creating lots of problems for their partner, who they're.
Speaker 1:You know the grandiose partner is drug into therapy. They can't figure out why they're there. They don't want to be there, and I've learned so much in RLT about how to deal with that partner, because before, when I was just kind of doing it on my own, doing the coaching, if someone didn't want to be there, I had no idea what to say to them. I was just like I don't know. But now, being able to see them through the lens of grandiosity whether they were falsely empowered or mod, you know, had that type of modeling you can see how they don't. They don't have a lot of empathy skills and they don't really understand how their behavior is impacting the people around them. And so being able to find leverage and being able to work with those more grandiose partners has been a real game changer for me, I know, as a coach.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very powerful and you know we say that people who are grandiose or exhibiting the narcissistic traits they're not in pain. Everyone around them is in pain. Their spouse is in pain from their behavior. Sometimes they're in trouble because their partner's always mad at them or their boss is in pain from their behavior. Sometimes they're in trouble because their partner's always mad at them or their boss is always mad at them, or they're in trouble at work or they're in trouble with their extended family. Right, they're in trouble. They're not in pain, and some of the work is helping the partner who is dragging the grandiose person into therapy, helping them speak up for themselves, helping them really say how this the other person's behavior is hurting them
Speaker 2:and what's at stake and what the grandiose person could have if they were willing to come in from outer space and take a look at their own behaviors and how it's impacting other people. Yeah, what could that be. What could they have? They could have a more warm, loving partner, right, who wants to be around you, who wants to have sex with you. But when you're off in outer space not recognizing how you're hurting others, it's not so likely that you'll get that warm connection.
Speaker 1:It's so interesting because oftentimes when I do interviews or I'm working with a couple that you know usually will come in saying we don't communicate very well, but at some point we get to this one partner or the other is not happy with the frequency or quality of their sexual relationship, and I always find that really interesting. It's such an important part of our relationship. But speak for a second about how how RLT can help bring more passion into the relationship, help you with the skills to talk about your sexual relationship, even with a partner who's super resistant to having those types of difficult conversations who's super resistant to having those types of difficult conversations.
Speaker 2:Oh sure, when you said before that people say we don't communicate well, it's a phrase that everybody uses. I've used it myself as well, and it tells us absolutely nothing, right, Like if someone says to you we just don't communicate well.
Speaker 2:I know nothing about what's going on, other than you're not satisfied with how the interactions go. So we get really specific in RLT in talking in session about what that lack of communication or struggle with communication actually means. The movie, the play by play Tell me what happened, how did it go, and the more specific you can be if you come in as a client, the more helpful it will be to the process. But when it comes to difficult conversations about any topic, sex included, the ability to have a conversation where you take turns one person's the speaker, the other's the listener.
Speaker 2:It's a skill to learn In our culture, in our families, we're taught that it's a back and forth. First you say what you think, then I say what I think, and then you say how you don't agree with what I think, and we're off to the races that go back and forth and back and forth and we're like, oh, we can never agree. Well, there's a lot more listening and reflecting that needs to take place if you're going to have healthy communication about anything, and most of the time what people are looking for is to be heard and understood. So I generally know that beneath the surface of we don't communicate well is I don't feel heard, I don't feel understood by the other person. You know, love in a relationship is great, but it only gets you so far. It's not enough. Love is not enough. Understanding and being heard is much more powerful, and that is part of what builds the passion and connection to truly feel, wow, he gets me, she gets me, you can be talking about sex or anything else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you may learn from your partner if you talk about sex, that this is our sexuality, is how I communicate. It's a one way of communicating the connection that I long for with you. It's not just an act, it's not just something we do, where you go into your mind and I go into my mind and imagine whatever we're imagining and our bodies are doing things together. For one person, it may be more than that or may want more than that, and to be able to talk about that, you need to be able to hear. You need to hear what the other person is saying and manage if you feel criticized or you feel triggered by what they're saying. Right, we all have to learn to manage our emotional response to what the other person is saying so that we can stay present and truly hear what they're saying.
Speaker 1:So good. Well, this is really interesting because I want to talk about for a minute the option of bootcamps. So my husband and I, I feel like we have a really great relationship. I'm definitely not complaining about anything, but that's not to say that it can't improve. You know I am obsessed with this, study this all the time, working with other couples and learning skills, and I feel like I'm pretty good at getting into second consciousness when I need to and then teaching my husband also. You know kind of roundabout ways of doing different things. I can always spot when his adaptive child is triggered. I can usually spot when he's in his CNI and I know my CNI busting behavior. So if you're not familiar with that, I'm sure we'll do an episode. That's.
Speaker 1:Your core negative image is something that couples do to each other that has nothing to do with your actual partner. It's coming from, from you, like. So I feel like one way, knowing the skills, I can manage a lot about our relationship, but I still think that it could be improved and I love the option of being able to go to a boot camp, and so my husband and I are actually going to a boot camp this weekend. I'm so excited, I cannot wait, and so I'm going to come back and report a bootcamp this weekend. I'm so excited, I cannot wait, and so I'm going to come back and report on it and all the things that we've learned. But talk about a bootcamp If somebody's listening and they're like I'm not ready to go to therapy. Like you know, I don't want to do weekly counseling. But what is a bootcamp and how can it really strengthen that relationship?
Speaker 2:Sure. So, cni, one of the things that you mentioned you'll learn more about in boot camps and it's great that you're going with your husband because you're steeped in learning RLT but by him joining you, you'll have a common language, and having that common language helps you deepen that connection, a way of being able to talk about things differently and for him to learn his triggers rather than you knowing what his triggers are.
Speaker 2:Because that's not your job, it's his. So it's fabulous that you're going. Yeah, so there are certain relational life therapists and coaches who got an extra certification to be able to present the materials and do a boot camp. A boot camp is a two day in person. Sometimes they're online. I shouldn't say that they're available both ways.
Speaker 2:Workshop, where it's for couples and individuals, you do not have to go as a couple, you can go alone. We do encourage that because RLT is for all of your relationships, not just romantic relationships. We've had mother-daughter also go to boot camps, so keep that in mind as you listen to this. It's a group setting where the first day is spent focused on your relationship to yourself. We teach about self-esteem, we teach about boundaries and we teach about the intersection of self-esteem and boundaries. From that intersection literally a grid that we call the relationship grid we learn how those two things interplay and therefore what you tend to do when you're out of the center of relational health. I won't go into more details than that, but that's the first day.
Speaker 2:The second day is focused more on your relationship to each other or to other people and the skills to communicate better and to work through difficult conversations and issues. You learn about core negative image, which is, in real brief, the image we have of our partner when we ourselves start to get triggered by their behavior. Now, the thing is it's mostly generated from yourself, but there's also a grain of truth in your experience of the other person, and so the other person needs to be able to acknowledge that grain of truth. So that's a big overview of the two days. There's lecture parts of it. There's, like you know, the presenter will teach you certain things.
Speaker 2:There's small groups where you do things with the other participants, and there are times when you will break out into working with your partner if your partner's there and the leaders come around and help by answering questions and so on and so forth. There's a homework assignment in between day one and day two which you should take about an hour to do, and that's what a bootcamp is. It's a really transformational experience, partly because, and in large measure because, when you're with other people talking about relationship issues, you might hear the couple next to you say you know what we really struggle with this. What should we do when this comes up? Guide them, and it's we're meant to be in relationship, we're meant to be in community and to learn about these things in community has a very transformational effect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm so excited about it. So when is your next bootcamp? If somebody wants to come to a bootcamp that you're hosting, Thank you.
Speaker 2:So my next bootcamp is April 5th and 6th Saturday and Sunday and it's being held live in person in Annapolis, maryland, which, if you've never been to Annapolis, it is a charming. It is a charming historic waterfront town on the Chesapeake Bay. We host it in a fabulous hotel called the Graduate Annapolis. You will feel like you are in an escape, in a retreat. There's fabulous shops and restaurants and walking distance. So it's a great way to make it a relationship getaway or a getaway for yourself in a really great setting. So I do encourage you to take a look at the information on my website. It will share all of that. We do limit the number of people who attend a bootcamp because we want it to be an intimate experience and where the leaders can actually attend to each person or each couple. So we we cap ours at 24 people. We already have people registered for it. It will sell out. So, yeah, that's when my next bootcamp is.
Speaker 1:Well, that sounds awesome. I would totally be there if I weren't going to be in the armpit of Nevada, which is Reno, for a volleyball tournament. So we do a lot of that. But yeah, I'm so excited to attend the bootcamp and I will be talking on the podcast about the things that I've learned and experienced through the bootcamp, so stay tuned for that. Thank you, risa, for sharing your experience and knowledge of RLT. I'm really really close to certification. I'm just finishing my small group mentoring and then I will be submitting my tapes of working with couples and hopes to get certified. And once I'm officially certified, I believe that I show up on a website. So if you're looking for an RLT therapist, you can go to is it terryreelcom? That's one of the sites, yeah and find a relational life certified therapist or coach. So that's a really great resource. We will have your website reset on the show notes so that people can find you and get more information.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, my website is pretty easy to remember. It's togethercouplescounselingcom, and so for the bootcamp, just go to the bootcamp page tab at the top for people to find that there.
Speaker 1:Perfect and I'm hoping to get further training to be able to do, eventually, a bootcamp. But again, thank you so much for your time and maybe say just a couple sentences, last words. If a couple or if somebody who's listening to this podcast is thinking maybe I could benefit from some relational life coaching or a bootcamp or something like that, what would you say to that person?
Speaker 2:Maybe they, maybe they also have a partner who that's very resistant to the idea and you are in enough pain and discomfort in the relationship that you need help beyond what you have done or tried on your own. You may need to continually speak up about what you are asking for and there may need to be some consequences. That may feel to some of you like a really strong word, but if you are uncomfortable enough and the other person is not, they're not going to join you in therapy until they are also uncomfortable. So if that means saying every day from a loving, warm place, not out of anger and lashing out, but I'll make up a name, scott, I need us to go to couples therapy. I'm not happy with how things are. I loveclock, I need you to be there and you say that every day. Every day, just the way I said it, in the tone that I said it, and hope that he shows up at six o'clock.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. And then speak to the consequences, because sometimes I know how do we make our partner uncomfortable enough to understand that we're being very serious partner?
Speaker 2:uncomfortable enough to understand that we're being very serious. Yeah Well, you've got to know what matters to them. I had a couple one time who, anytime the wife even hinted at not sleeping in the same bedroom, he would get very upset and very distressed. How can you do that? This means you don't love me, so on and so forth. She became enough distressed and uncomfortable with their relationship that she was willing to tolerate his upset at her not being in the bedroom.
Speaker 2:And she did so in a loving, supportive way. I love you. I'm not happy. I need things to be better. We need help. We can't do it alone and until you join me in therapy, I'm going to be sleeping in the other rooms. I love you. I want to be sleeping together, but right now I cannot do that because of how things are between us.
Speaker 1:And she did that and he came into therapy so good and I bet they had a life-changing, relationship-changing experience and hopefully they will speak out about their experience because I think that the more people who feel comfortable sharing like we needed some help and we had the courage to go and do it and now our relationship is so much better and now we're handing something so much better down to our children. One thing I love to say, because I think it's true, is you will make mistakes as a parent. Nobody gets that right. Nobody's ever done it before.
Speaker 1:Children are very difficult to raise and so you'll make a lot of mistakes. But I think that giving them a really good blueprint for how to be relational, how to be a team and intimate and passionate as a couple, is the very best gift you can give them. And you can make all the mistakes in the world in your parenting that they can then work out in the balance of a healthy relationship eventually, right. So I think the most important thing you can do for your kids is really work on your own relationality, your own relationship with your spouse, which will spill over to your relationship with your children, absolutely.
Speaker 2:One of the things I say is you can have the best career, you can have the best of friends, you can have fabulous hobbies, but what matters most in our lives is our relationships, and we can get better at them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the great news. The great news is that relationship is just a skillset. It's something that we can learn if we are willing, and just like any other skillset a sport, a musical instrument practice, practice, practice. It takes time and you have to be willing to be bad at it before you can be good at it, but it's so possible and it's so worth it In fact, more worth it than anything else to put your time and energy and financial resources into getting really good at relationship skills.
Speaker 2:You know one of the couples, the husband, who attended our bootcamp. They're married 30 plus years, he said after bootcamp. He said my wife has been bugging me to go to something like this for almost 30 years and I finally did it and I'm so glad we did. So I can't wait, monica, to hear what your experience of bootcamp is when you talk about it.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, it'll be so great, Well, awesome. Thank you so much and thank you all for listening, even if it felt uncomfortable. If you are feeling a little bit of tug in your heart that like maybe we could create, maybe we could learn some skills, maybe we could create something better, more passionate, more intimate in our relationship, I hope that you'll reach out to an RLT trained therapist or look for a bootcamp that works for you. And until next week, happy marriaging.