Marriage and Intimacy Tips for Christian Couples: Secrets of Happily Ever After
Have you ever wondered what makes the difference between those couples who absolutely LOVE to be together and the ones who merely tolorate each other in their old age? I always want to run up to the cute old couples who still hold hands while walking down the street and ask them all their secrets to relationship success. This podcast gives me the opportunity to do just that!
I'm Monica Tanner, wife to a super hunky man, mom to 4 kids, weekly podcaster and relationship and intimacy expert/enthusiast. I help couples ditch the resentment and roommate syndrome and increase communication, connection and commitment, so they can write and live out their happily ever after love story. If that sounds like something you want, this podcast is absolutely for YOU!
Each week, I'm teasing out the principles that keep couples hopelessly devoted and intoxicatingly in love with each other for a lifetime and beyond. I'm searching high and low for the secrets of happily ever after and sharing those secrets with you right here. Sound marriage advice for couples who want to live happily ever after and achieve a truly intimate friendship, because an awesome marriage makes life so much sweeter. Let's get to it!
Marriage and Intimacy Tips for Christian Couples: Secrets of Happily Ever After
How to Transform Your Relationship from a Mediocre Marriage to a Passionate Partnership
Unlock the secrets to transforming a mediocre marriage into one filled with passion and fulfillment. Discover how to navigate the ebb and flow between survival and self-actualization, and learn why investing time and effort into your partnership can reignite the flames of passion.
In this episode, we'll give you the 3 rules of turning a mediocre marriage into one full of passion, play and pleasure. You do not want to miss the fantastic broad overview of the skills we will be teaching in the new year. Get a jump start on writing your happily ever after love story.
Interested in setting goals and a unified vision for 2025. Join me on January 7th at noon MST as I walk you through this process in a workshop style class. Even if you can't join us live, you'll get a replay and a workbook, so you can work through it at your own pace. Use this link to register --> https://www.eventbrite.com/e/plan-for-relationship-success-in-2025-tickets-1115977291119?aff=oddtdtcreator
Hello everybody. You really were just wanting to do that, weren't you?
Speaker 2:No, I was really excited to do the Monica part.
Speaker 1:Intro it out, let's hear it.
Speaker 2:No, you can go for it. This is your show. You take it away. You have your intro. I was just giving you a hard time.
Speaker 1:All right, well, welcome back to the Secrets of Happily Ever After podcast. Secrets, secrets, secrets. I'm your host, monica Tanner, with my co-host, nate Bagley, and we are so, so excited for this topic. Both of us get really geeky out. Both of us really geek out on this topic big time. This is mediocre is Nate's word, passionate is my word, and when you put it together, we get a really, really fun conversation that we're excited to have with you today because mostly, I think it's going to set us up really well for everything we're going to be discussing in 2025. So, happy New Year's Eve to everyone. I hope that you had a wonderful, wonderful holiday with your family and you are ready to get to work on your marriage this year.
Speaker 2:Yes to all those things.
Speaker 1:So, to introduce the topic in a more succinct way, today we're talking about the difference between a mediocre and a passionate marriage. Why would you want a more passionate marriage, and how do you move from mediocre to passion?
Speaker 2:Yeah, can I even provide a preface for this? A little bit.
Speaker 1:You can provide anything you want.
Speaker 2:I'm going to throw a visual up for people who watch the video and if you're not watching the video, I'll describe what I'm putting on the screen here. All right? So this is an image from a book called the All or Nothing Marriage by an author named Eli Finkel. He's an amazing researcher and he wrote this book about the evolution of marriage over time and kind of the way modern marriage works and the expectations we have for one another and how it is kind of an all or nothing thing. Now we kind of expect our a lot from our partners and one of the things he breaks things he breaks down in this book is he compares the demands that we place on our marriage to Maslow's hierarchy of needs and how, um, the farther back in history you go, the lower, uh, the lower the expectations were that people had for their marriage.
Speaker 2:Like, early on, the expectations people had for the their marriage was that they would just help me there's help, that their partner would help them meet their physiological needs. Like you know, you would help each other have food and shelter and and get rest stand. One person would stand watch while the other got sleep. You know it was kind of like a more communal situation. And then throughout history, if you go way, way back, but throughout history, we've had more and more expectations of our partners. So then it became we wanted safety within our relationships and then, beyond safety, we wanted you know. Back, when it was just safety, it was like, you know you, just you just want somebody to share your life with, somebody that can be relatively predictable. And then it was like, oh, but I also want them to love me and I also, you know, want some sex and I want some trust and confidence, a confidant somebody to they can be there for me. And then after that it was like you get to this esteem and then all the way at the very top, is self-actualization. It's like I want somebody to help me become my best self. I want somebody to help me have, like, really full self-expression and pursue my goals and live, live my truth and all of these things.
Speaker 2:And his argument is that, like, these things are all good things to want from your relationship, but just like hiking Mount Everest, the higher up the mountain you get, the more resources it requires to thrive at that level. So anybody who hikes Mount Everest, like you, you you have to like take oxygen, you have to train a lot, you have to be at peak physical condition and even then, even if you've trained for years and you have the oxygen and all the supplies and a Sherpa and everything that you need to be successful, even then when you get to the top of Everest, you can't spend very much time there before you have to move down because it just requires so much resources to stay there. And so the reason I share this and I guess you can stop sharing the image now the reason I share this is because I want to be realistic about what constitutes a mediocre marriage and that the state of your marriage is not a linear or a stagnant thing Like your marriage throughout. One of the things that Eli Finkel talks about in his book is that your marriage throughout, throughout your marriage, you're going to be at different places on that mountain. There are going to be times where you're at the very tippy top and you're really fulfilling that like self-actualization You're. You're feeling like you're your best self and that your marriage is facilitating like, um, the most incredible you that you can be. And then there are going to be times where you know you, you just have like really passionate, great sex, but you're not at that self-actualization place. And then there's going to be times where you're in straight up survival mode.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm currently sick.
Speaker 2:I have a daughter who's sick. Um, um, two nights ago she did not go to sleep. She cried literally from the time we put her to bed at seven 30 until four 30 in the morning and I was up with her all night. I didn't sleep. I took her for car rides, I like I did everything I could and it was just a long fricking day. And so the last couple of days I've been in survival mode and I, you know, maybe even weeks, um and uh.
Speaker 2:And so I just want to paint a realistic picture of like that your, your marriage is never going to be passionate all the time and it shouldn't be mediocre all the time either. And the only reason it would stay mediocre all the time is if you're not making the effort to kind of dedicate enough resources to move up on that mountain. So if anybody's in a place right now where they're like I don't love where my marriage is at, it's like that's a normal thing. I just want to normalize it. I want to say it's okay, we all move up and down that mountain and hopefully, the tips that we provide will make it a little easier or help you focus the resources in the right place to help you step out of where you're currently at if you're not super satisfied and experience some of those higher levels of marriage periodically, more and more as we go through life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, is that an okay context to set for this conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I feel like defining a mediocre marriage is kind of your specialty, like that is. I mean, I feel like that's kind of how I learned about who you were and what you stood for is. You were trying to rid the world of mediocre marriage and I was like ding, ding, ding. I love that because I think it's really culturally. I think it's easy to fall into that space of you know telling yourself that you're just accepting who your partner is and this is all it's ever going to be. So then we stop standing up for ourselves and stop asking for what we want and that we just accept, and most people are probably going to live their entire lives in a mediocre marriage.
Speaker 1:Yeah you have to intentionally step into a space where you're willing to create something better and it is possible and it is awesome, but you have to be willing to do a few things. So I kind of put together some rules of a passionate marriage. If you are feeling like you're in a mediocre marriage, which means that you, maybe you function pretty well, you get the kids where they need to go, you can have food on the table um, you know, roof over your head, you, you get along, okay, but you're basically just tolerating each other's existence. You're working as partners. As you know, there's not a lot of touching and excitement and play. You know resources in your marriage Okay, but if you're ready for something more, let's talk about how you get there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's.
Speaker 1:So number one I would say If you want to up-level your marriage, no matter where it's at, you have to be willing to risk it. So what I see a lot of people do is they don't want to rock the boat, they don't want to upset their partner, they don't want to upset the fragile equilibrium which is their marriage. So you know, that's what's going to keep most people stuck. Most people are just going to be like I don't want to. I don't want to confront this. I don't want to bring up the hard conversations. I don't. I don't want to be vulnerable. I don't want to put myself out there with the opportunity of getting rejected.
Speaker 2:The devil you know is better than the devil you you don't.
Speaker 1:Is it?
Speaker 2:really that bad that I have to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so they'll just kind of go through the process of letting parts of themselves die off. The word I hear all the time that just like ooh it sends shivers up my spine. I hate it Is this word compromise. Like it's okay, I'll just compromise, like we're just compromising and you're really neither of you are really getting what you want out of the relationship. That's how I would define mediocrity is just compromising or letting pieces of yourself die off or become unimportant because you're not willing to fight for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I want, I want to, I want to provide a little bit of clarity and context into these, this idea of risking the relationship. I think there's there's two ways to think about this. I think one way is like you, literally, are putting your relationship on the line and it's like if, if things don't change, we get a divorce, and that's that's like the big risk are um, and I think that that can be true in a lot of, in a lot of situations that, like um, that stepping out of what currently exists and into something new could put your, your, your relationship at like big risk. It could end Um, but there's also a a, a small R risk, I think, and it's like the current version of the relationship that you have needs to die to make room for the new version of the relationship.
Speaker 2:So, for example, like um, my wife and I might have the routine of watching a TV show every single night before we go to bed. Like, we get the kids to bed, we plop down, we watch TV and then we go to sleep, and it's because we're exhausted, we're tired, we're burned out after long days of hard work and caring for the family and just doing all the things, but watching TV may not be getting us the results that we want in our relationship. And so, in order for us to get the results that we want and have the relationship we want, the version of our relationship where we sit down every night and watch a TV show probably has to die and it might need to get replaced by a walk around the block or a foot massage or like a cuddle session or something else that's more nurturing for our relationship. So I don't want people to think that like oh my gosh, if I want a passionate relationship, I have to risk divorce. Like that's not the case, and that's not always the case.
Speaker 2:It might get to be the case. That's part of the reality of life. But also there's a lot of times if your relationship is not going well. Not doing anything is more risky, more likely to lead to divorce than doing something. But but what I do want you to think about is like how can the current state of your relationship, the current version of your relationship, die off a little bit, rather than a part of you dying off, so that you can have the type of relationship that you want, where you can bring your whole self into it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, is that a fair distinction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think another risky R is resentment. I mean the presence of resentment will kill passion, absolutely, 100%. But the reason why people get so resentful is because they're not willing to risk the discomfort of going after something that they want.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They'll, they'll, they'll just let the resentment build and build, and build until it will actually destroy the relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the other side of that is, the less of me that my partner can tolerate in the relationship, the more of myself I feel like I have to hide, and the more of myself I have to hide, I think, the more resentful I become. And so, creating a, creating a space where you can like. I always think that the end game of any relationship ship should be to create maximal enjoyment and fulfillment for both parties, and so, if you can start with that goal of like, how do we make our relationship maximally enjoyable, maximally satisfying and fulfilling for both of us? How can we make it a space where both of us can bring our full selves and feel accepted and loved? And start from that space? I think you're you're going to be in a pretty good spot. And if you're not there now, imagine what that space would look like and, instead of working away from the pain, work towards something that is a little bit more pleasurable and exciting.
Speaker 2:It's typically easier to get on board with something like that. It's easier to. I think it's easier for people to unite around a shared goal that they both have that gets them excited, than it is to argue and finger point their way to a great marriage. I think if you show up to this conversation saying like it's your fault, no, it's your fault and here's how you're harming me and here's what makes me miserable about you, that's not necessarily the quickest path to the type of relationship that you want. So kill off the current relationship that you have by defining something much better than what you have and figuring out what it would take to get there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I love that. So that brings me to number two, because here's why people sit so long with resentment is they? They get upset about not getting what they haven't asked for, and this opens up Wait wait, say that again.
Speaker 2:That's a really important sentence that I don't want people to admit.
Speaker 1:You can't be upset about not getting what you haven't asked for.
Speaker 2:You can't be upset about not getting what you haven't asked for.
Speaker 1:And here's what makes this tricky, right? Here's the little caveat of this because most people, most and I'm like 99.9% of the people in the world are just going to complain about what they're not getting and they feel like that's being assertive. They'll think that saying I'm so frustrated because my husband never helps clean the house or I never orgasm, or we don't have enough sex, or you know, even like here is an example that's not, doesn't have anything to do with marriage. It's like if I'm saying I'm so frustrated because nobody listens to this podcast, that is a complaint that will get you nowhere and in no way can you be upset that nobody is listening to this podcast unless you ask people to listen to the podcast. So you can always be certain that underneath any type of complaint is a request.
Speaker 1:A complaint is masking a request. But the reason why it's easier to complain is because it's less vulnerable. You're not going to get disappointed. You're not putting yourself out there with the idea that someone's going to reject or say no or not like your idea. You're just complaining. But it's not moving you in the direction of a more passionate marriage.
Speaker 1:So, in the complaint that nobody's listening to this podcast is actually the request for more people to listen to this podcast. So instead of saying I am so pissed because nobody is downloading and listening to this podcast, it could be saying man, I would love it if you would listen to this podcast and, if you're loving it, share it with a friend and tell your boss about it. And you know like that is. That makes all the difference. Is being able to ask for what you want.
Speaker 2:Make a lot it's. I think it's worth pointing out, monica, that a lot of people have been taught that it's not okay to ask for what you want their entire lives. Yes, so if this is not something you're comfortable with, that is okay, that's normal, especially women.
Speaker 1:We are kind of socialized to be needless and wantless, like it's selfish to want things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would. I would argue, in a lot of cultures it's the same for men too. Like an honorable man is the man who puts the needs of his wife above his own, who is there to provide and protect but not to desire. You know, like that's, that's, that's the. That's the ideal that I grew up with is that if you want to be a good man, you put everybody else's needs before your own. Right, you put, you know, but I saw that with the women too. Like it's, it's a, it's an equal thing.
Speaker 2:So I'm just saying that the culture or the way that you were raised, the family you were raised in, most of us were taught in a young age. Like you had that that moment. I remember when I was a kid, my um, my grandma, used to have like a gumball machine in her house and it was so fun for me to like get a, get a nickel or whatever, and I'd go put it in the gumball machine and turn it and I'd get some M&Ms or something out of it. And I remember walking out to my grandma one day and saying like hey, can I have a nickel so I can get some? Um, so I can get some candy out of the candy machine and I got reprimanded like you don't ask people for money, that's not okay, you know. And those little things like stick with you, like, oh, you don't ask for things, you don't just walk up and say I want that.
Speaker 2:Like you know, and I think we've all had a moment somewhere in our lives where we were taught that it's that your desires. It's not okay for you to assert your desire, to speak out loud what it is that you want, because it's selfish or it's entitlement or all these other negative words that get associated with pleasure for the sake of pleasure, or having a desire that you want to have met. And so if it's a struggle, that's okay. And I think what Monica mentioned is really powerful, like owning your desires is a part of being an adult and it requires some vulnerability and it requires some thought and some courage, and almost every person I've ever talked to can do a much better job and is much more readily available what they don't want than what they do want.
Speaker 2:It's so easy to say what you don't want, and it's so easy to complain about not getting what you did want, and it's really really hard in the moment before something happens, to be clear about what you do want and why yeah.
Speaker 1:And the reality is, those wants and needs are there. Whether you acknowledge them or not, they're going to create resentment. So here is the telltale like this is what you can do right now, and I promise you, if you will do this exercise for the next 30 to 60 days, your relationship will change dramatically.
Speaker 2:And here it is a week.
Speaker 1:So you start with a week, start with a week and when, when you are loving it, do it for two weeks and then three. Okay, so what I want you to do is every time Whoa, did you hear that?
Speaker 2:What I want you to do? Yes, monica's going to stay to want everybody.
Speaker 1:Here's what I want you to do. If you're listening to my voice which they obviously are.
Speaker 2:Yes, commit, we are all listening to your voice right now, monica.
Speaker 1:Every time a complaint crosses your mind, whether you say it out loud or not. Some people are better at this than others, right? Some people are going to get their friends together at the gym or at lunch or whatever, and they're going to complain about all the things they're not getting. Every time you feel prompted to do that. I want you to turn the complaint into a request. So my husband never helps around the house. Your request is I would like my husband to participate more in the housework.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:If your complaint is I hate it that my wife always feeds our kids sugar, your request would be for your wife to give your kids less sugar.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I want you to create a list of requests, every complaint that crosses your mind, turn it into a request and make a list, and Nate and I, this year, are going to teach you how to make these requests in a really, really healthy, productive chances of getting what you want way. But you've got to have that list of requests first.
Speaker 2:Because, guys, I really like Terry Real when he talks about how a complaint is essentially saying I need to tell you what I think is wrong with you, so I don't you know. A person can only take so much of hearing what you think is wrong with you. So I don't you know. A person can only take so much of hearing what you think is wrong with them before they start tuning you out, avoiding you, disconnecting from you. There's no um, oh, my gosh, uh.
Speaker 2:Kathleen Smith wrote a book, uh, called um, everything isn't terrible, it's about managing your anxiety, and she talks about how there's uh, there's no um, there's no problem. That distance can't be a good solution for no relationship problem. So, whenever you're experiencing a relationship issue, like the one of the most basic default human instincts is just to create distance. It's like, ah, this person doesn't like me, I make you know this person's uncomfortable, this person's, I make this person angry, like whenever there's that stress or that friction, that tension, that conflict between two people, your brain will just be like I'm going to create distance because this is a dangerous relationship for me.
Speaker 2:And if all you're giving to your partner is that message that something's wrong with you, something's wrong with you. Something's wrong with you, something's wrong with you, then they're going to create physical, emotional, psychological distance from you and you're going to end up in that place where you're like our marriage is mediocre because we don't have fun together anymore, because there's way too much distance. We're not physically intimate anymore because there's too much distance, it's too risky for us to be close to each other because we're going to be too on edge, our armor's going to be on and we can't be close. So just that one principle of shifting complaints to requests can lower the defenses, can decrease the distance and increase intimacy.
Speaker 1:And here's the crazy thing about that when we get married, like I believe that I chose somebody who wants me to be happy, like he wants to be, that Right. Helping him win is and that's going to. That's part of how we'll teach you how to make these requests. It's going to be really, really good. But just making a request of him hey, would you mind doing the dishes tonight? I'm really tired Like if you could do the dishes and put the kids to bed, I would so appreciate that. Oh my gosh, who's going to say no to that? That's what my husband did for me last night. I went to bed early, he cleaned the kitchen, he got the kids in bed, right, and my guess is that he loved being able to do that for me Today's, the day off. And guess what? He got favors right back today.
Speaker 2:Good work.
Speaker 1:And that brings me to the third rule. It's like positive reinforcement, and that is to acknowledge any portion or attempt, a progress. Because here's what I've noticed working with couples and this is really interesting, nate, tell me if you notice this as well but when partner B starts giving partner A what they've asked for, partner A starts to discount it Like, oh, you're only doing that because I told you to, or something that often happens a little too late, or some type of not giving partner B the credit that is and that is the well they should be doing that.
Speaker 2:It's. They live in this house too. Exactly.
Speaker 1:Finally, right Like, that is the worst behavioral modification program I could ever think of. So if you get any progress at all, right, like, if I ask my husband to clean the kitchen and put the kids to bed so I can go to bed early and he doesn't clean the counters, holy crap. Oh well, I'm going to let that go. I'm going to come out and see that the dishes are done and that the kids obviously at some point went to bed and I am going to say, oh my gosh, thank you so much for doing that for me. I had a great night's sleep. I'm ready to conquer the day with you. I'm ready to give you whatever favors you want today. Like, seriously, I am so in love with you for even attempting that request that I made.
Speaker 2:Gratitude is powerful.
Speaker 1:Exactly, or I could have not done any of those three rules that we just talked about. Woke up this morning and I'm complaining about my husband who never helps around the house, never puts the kids to bed. I'm so tired, I have to do everything.
Speaker 2:There's a really great book about this called what Shamu Taught Me About Life, love and Marriage by Amy Sutherland.
Speaker 1:She went out to study animal.
Speaker 2:I've read a lot of these books she went out to study the top animal trainers in the world and how they train all these animals to do these crazy things, and then ended up testing some of those things out on her husband and realized that, like, humans are animals and the the, the positive incentive programs that the animals trainers use are literally the most powerful tools that you can use to train your partner. But basically show them like this is how I want to be treated and loved, and it's really powerful.
Speaker 1:I'm going to read that book because I love that idea One of my favorites, yeah.
Speaker 2:Also, I am running out of time. I have to jump off. I hit my limit.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I think that's a good teaser. So let's just close this out and talk about the difference. I think, personally, between a mediocre and a passionate marriage is a huge portion of play and pleasure and positive regard for your partner. And how do we do that? Number one is that we have to be willing to risk the relationship. So, whether it's risking the whole relationship or risking the status of the relationship, or routine in the relationship or something right, something has to die.
Speaker 1:You have to be willing to put it on the line to move forward right.
Speaker 2:Number two can't be mad about something you never asked for. So state your needs and your desires.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I gave you an assignment. Do you remember what?
Speaker 2:that is, complaints with requests.
Speaker 1:Yes and write them down. Write down your requests, Cause we're going to tell you how to use those really powerfully.
Speaker 2:And then the last one was acknowledge even the slightest progress. Yes, celebrate the wins, reinforce the behavior you want to see more of.
Speaker 1:Yes, and what is that book by Amy Sutherland?
Speaker 2:What Shamu taught me about life, love and marriage by Amy Sutherland.
Speaker 1:Okay, we're going to put that in the show notes. So if you want to learn how to train your spouse, that's the guidebook, right?
Speaker 2:It's phenomenal.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Okay, well, happy 2025. Thank you so much for joining us. We are so excited to dive into these really important topics about how to improve your relationship, to take it from mediocre to passionate, and we hope that you'll join us next week for more awesome marriage content.
Speaker 2:Bye guys.
Speaker 1:See you later. Bye-bye.